Seal of Approval; Senior Member; 77 3,144 posts; Location: Lynwood, CA; Cars: 1995 4Runner SR5, 1974 Datsun 620, 1966 Mustang 289 auto; Author; … Carrera S - 355 hp in 997.1 form and 385 in 997.2. Please consider an ANNUAL donation to help keep this site operating. Click here to Donate. Normally the left side is darker if it’s bore scoring. Blue smoke at the startup is a hint at worn piston rings or even bore scoring. If your engine or application isn’t listed above, we can still create a “Stocker” for you . Another issue you are likely to have read about on Porsche forums is bore scoring, which can also lead to engine failure. Once the protective cylinder lining is damaged, the cylinder is in direct contact will the wall which causes scarring. The lifter bores are integral to the head. Porsche models that could be at risk of bore scoring. I am looking to buy a 2005 Porsche 911 Carrera S 34180 miles what to whatch out for I know about the intermediate shaft bearing issue and cylinder bore scoring how can check for this and what to look for in a REV test thanx. To narrow your search by model, please select a Model Category. Show More. by Bob McHugh | August 10, 2011. Jake Raby 3.6 SS ( the beast ) with IMS Solution. Firstly, they often leak at the rear main seal. motavated 77 Posted July 24, 2010. motavated. Models that have been well maintained with a good service history and a healthy cooling system will reduce the chance of localised overheating. There are stronger cam caps, stronger gears (2014+ have module cam lobes like a 904 or a 4 cam Carrera). The camshaft has hardly any duration but has huge lift and ramp speed. Mine wasn’t. Ask Your Own Porsche Question. My car … Two issues are associated with 997.1 Carrera motors: bore scoring and intermediate shaft bearing failure. There is no obvious smoke and oil pressure is normal. Show Less. Bore scoring is just another issue to be aware of , just like the IMS it could happen maybe even might happen but not enough of an issue to not enjoy the cars . The forums are full of horror stories concerning cylinder bore scoring and failure of the intermediate shaft (IMS) bearing in the Gen 1 Carrera engines. The 911 Carrera 997 was Porsche’s second go round at moving on from the air-cooled 911. The four-wheel drive versions hav… The extent of the problem has been exaggerated and in reality it has only affected a very small proportion of 997s; although that will be of little consolation to you if it happens to your car and you are left with a repair bill for thousands. While the 996 was a little rawer, the new 997 was more sophisticated, well behaved and easier to drive. In addition, lubrication of the cylinders is also compromised by a two year oil change interval. That’s what made my OPC doubt their original diagnosis. Welcome to RennTech.org Community, Guest. There is 5 mm more valve lift on 911 9a1 as opposed to the 9a1 Boxster … “Porsche GB advise that it sold 9710 E 996s and 997s in the model years 2004-2006. glenwells Monza Joined: 20 Aug 2015 Posts: 158: Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: 5-10% bore scoring? Bore scoring. At the entry level to 997 ownership, a 3.6-litre Carrera is generally two or three grand cheaper than an S in similar condition. With a huge 3,996cc engine capacity (you’ll struggle for bigger bores for the flat six than with the RS 4.0) helping to produce nearly 500bhp without a turbocharger in sight, this represents the finest road-going iteration of the famous ‘Mezger’ engine. The scoring in your pictures are very sharp edged. Porsche 997.2 Carrera ultimate guide. The 20K/2yr service intervals also haven’t helped with engine life when in such an urban environment, a diluted oil doesn’t get changed often. Above: MY 2005 911 Carrera (left) and 911 Carrera S. Article by Rob Sass Photos courtesy Porsche For all the controversy that surrounded the 996, the 997 was and remains stunningly devoid of differences of opinion. There are many articles online and various posts in Porsche forums about bore scoring issues and engine failure! The Carrera S offered a 3.8L engine, Porsche Active Suspension Management with lowered suspension, 19-inch wheels, an improved braking system, sports exhaust, bi-Xenon headlights, and aluminum-finished instrumentation. It gives a slightly lower ride height and active shocks, which can be switched from soft to hard modes (for smooth roads and race-like hardness) with the click of a button in front of the shifter. Click here to Donate. I have been seeing scary stories on bore scoring from Jake Raby on bore scoring. Welcome to PCA’s source of expert advice, where our PCA National Technical Committee experts answer your questions about all things technical. SHARE STORY. Answered in 1 hour by: 1/22/2015. It came with 321 hp and 273 lb-ft of torque. We have first-hand experience of some of these problems, with our own 997 Carrera S, recently suffering from the common bore scoring issues experienced with the 996/997 models. 996 Series (Carrera, Carrera 4, Carrera 4S, Targa) Cylinder Scoring - Cooling issues - Opinions - NEWB! Another factor in the M96/97’s engine design is the difference in lubrication and cooling. Some very wet-finger-in­the-air guesswork suggests independent specialist rebuilds and OPC warranty replacements combined may have reached 500 engines from that period, which indicates an overall percentage of around five per cent. You must log in to view answers associated with technical questions. The M96/97 Crankcases use ‘Lokasil’ Cylinder liners (a flexible but hard-surface metal matrix composite) and due to the layout of the open deck crankcase on 996/997 models, the cylinder banks are not rigidly supported like the first generation 928, 944 & 968 watercooled engines. This in turn causes the sixth cylinder to become slightly oval in shape, causing more friction between the cylinder and the wall which results in the cylinder lining being rubbed away. The original bearing was fine, but bore-scoring was substantial. Beyond that some cars that have the optional Sport suspension (called Sport PASM). 997.2 S has the advantages of better cabin, exterior refresh, performance, and economy improvements over its gen 1 counterpart. We would recommend an annual oil change for these models especially if you use your car for regular short journeys. The car is fun and exhilarating to drive, yet can be used every day. “Porsche GB advise that it sold 9710 E 996s and 997s in the model years 2004-2006. Is it an issue or not ? Quote; Link to post. 2. bore scoring could come from highly stressed pistons that don't track perfectly - a known compromise Porsche made in the M96 3. bore scoring could come from failed lubrication, e.g. Just my opinion . Combined with new Capricorn pistons the engine is now 3.9 litres and in perfect condition. Countless scientific papers were dedicated to the problematic cylinder coating. These cars were on 20K mile/2year service intervals which many experts are now suggesting was a step too far for this engine. Update my browser now, A rythmic ticking noise that sounds similar to that of a hydraulic lifter, One exhaust pipe has more soot than the other. 997-1 Series (Carrera, GT3-2, TT, GT2) (MY2005 - 2008) 997-1 Series (Carrera, Carrera 4, Carrera 2S, Carrera 4S) So I've joined the exclusive 997.1 Bore-Scoring club - what are my The RennTech.org community is Member supported! All water cooled 911’s Boxster’s and Caymans from 2004 through to 2009 are at risk of suffering from bore score however, it would appear the percentage of engines actually affected is relatively low. Carrera; Carrera S; Starting in 2005, when Porsche came out with the 997.1, they had two Carrera options to choose from, the base and the S. The base Carrera carried over the 3.6L 6-cylinder engine from the 996. _____ 2002 Boxster S Arctic Silver with black top with glass window and black leather interior. Update your browser to view this website correctly. There are many … Early 96mm bore engines suffered from bore ovality cracking cylinders because the silicon pre-formed area of the bore was not as strong as Alusil and neither was the outer tube of pure alloy surrounding it so when the 93mm bore Boxster S casting was bored out 3mm larger (without increasing the O/D) the cylinders were weaker. Factors that make it less likely include a good service history, a healthy cooling system (to reduce the chance of localised cylinder overheating during the warm up or over-run) and a usage that isn’t inner city or predominantly short journeys (where the engine is always running with a rich mixture and excess fuel can dilute the oil). To search the entire Tech database, simply enter your search criteria. Share this conversation . Road test: 2008 Porsche 911 Carrera S Stylish tweaks to sporty good looks . I have been seeing scary stories on bore scoring from Jake Raby on bore scoring. The oil spray and coolant  faces the lower side of the cylinders which means the piston thrust on the right side cylinder runs slightly hotter than the left side. thanks Drew However, cylinder scoring has only affected a small percentage (perhaps 5%) of Gen 1 (pre DFI engine, 58-plate) cars. A full in-depth article on this issue and other export opinions can be found here. While cylinder bore scoring has been an issue on a relatively small percentage of 996 and 997 models, it isn’t a universal problem. It retained its 3,596 cc (3.596 L; 219.4 cu in) flat-6 engine. There are many great features available to you once you register at RennTech.org You are free … Trevor. All 9a1s are variocam plus. If there is not enough, or no gap, the ring will expand from the heat and break, possibly scoring the cylinder bores. The RennTech.org community is Member supported! Poor oil quality, combined with an apparent weaker cooling system integrity can contribute to what is called cylinder bore scoring. Welcome to RennTech.org Community, Guest. Carrera S' come standard with PASM while it's an option on the Carrera. In my own case, I needed a rebuild of my M96 3.6 (2002 Targa with Tip…180K miles then). So while in there, IMS Solution was just one more thing to do, as I certainly wasn’t going to re-install the old bearing just because the engine-builder says it’s … Although the car shares a fair number of body panels with the 996, all of the issues that the earlier car’s detractors latched onto were remedied. 2008 Porsche 911 Carrera Handout. This results in the sixth cylinder becoming hotter when thermal and mechanical stresses were applied across the two banks of cylinders. Because piston galling (as I remember it) isn't really the whole story. This required the engine to be re-bored and Niksel coated by our partners at Capricorn. : track use when the sump sucks air #2 and #3 are fixed in the DI motors. Good luck with your search! Also, why's do you guys call this "bore scoring" when it's really piston galling from what I can see? After the success and issues with the 996 versions of the 911, Porsche launched the 997 revised version in 2005. Ultimately a bore scope is the only way to rule it out. Is it wise to change the oil in a new 911 after 2000 mile break in, 1993 964 Increased headroom in my 964 Coupe, will 245 35 19 front 315 25 19 rear tires fit on 19 inch porsche rims. Please consider an ANNUAL donation to help keep this site operating. In 997.1 form the S had improved breaks and suspension as standard over the standard Carrera. excerpt: GT Porsche Magazine (above link), Rear the full discussion on cylinder bore scoring with the M96/M97 Carrera engines in the March 2015 GTPorsche magazine, by Peter Morgan. Cylinder Bore (Scoring) ... 99 Carrera, Carrera 4: M96.02: 3.4 Liter: 99 Carrera, Carrera 4: M96.04: 3.4 Liter: 00-01 Carrera, Carrera 4: M97.21: 3.4 Liter: 07-08 Boxster S, 08 Boxster S Limited Edition, 06-08 Cayman S: Note: Stocker engines are available for all applications from 1997-2008. To further filter the search results select a Subcategory. Little changed between the 996 and 997 Carrera. The 3.4 engine fitted to Porsche Cayman S and Boxster S vehicles is also susceptible to bore scoring. This Porsche 996 model 911 developed a serious engine noise while driving in traffic. cottlad wrote: Am in the process of … Things are not so simple with the 997’s engines. When fuel and moisture contaminate the oil (due to low mileage short journeys), the oil becomes diluted which results friction between the piston and the cylinder bore wall and localised overheating. Most important is the Gen 1 Carrera engine's perceived condition. Copyright 2021 Porsche Club of America Inc. All Rights Reserved. The camshafts are shorter on B2 because the fuel pump drives off bank 1. No buyer’s guide for the Porsche 996 Carrera 3.4 would be complete without mentioning some of the problems of the M96 engines. The piston skirt "coating" whether it's metallic (iron in the early engines) or plastic is a lot softer than the Alusil coating on M96 bores. The 2.5, 2.7, and 3.2 Boxster and Boxster S engines as well as the 2.7 engine fitted to base Boxster engines are not known to suffer from scored cylinder bores. Bore scoring is most common in Porsche 911 vehicles, including 996 and 997 models, fitted with the 3.6 and 3.8 engine. 2012 Porsche 991 Carrera S: Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:45 pm Post subject: If you really like the car, I would recommend that you have your own PPI and bore score check done, it will be money well spent. News | Josh Barnett | 0 comments; Ever since the 964 arrived back in 1989, there has been a decision to make before signing on the dotted line for a new Neunelfer, and that’s whether to choose a car driven by two wheels or four. Aluminum debris found in the oil filter, and engine oil sump. Is it an issue or not ? All water cooled 911’s Boxster’s and Caymans from 2004 through to 2009 are at risk of suffering from bore score however, it would appear the percentage of engines actually affected is relatively low. The second-generation Carrera S has a 3.8 L integrated dry sump. Expert advice, where our PCA National technical Committee experts answer your questions about all things technical the are! And easier to drive engine fitted to Porsche Cayman S and Boxster S vehicles is also compromised a. Niksel coated by our partners at Capricorn models, fitted with the 997 S. 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Serious engine noise while driving in traffic many … Normally the left side darker. Scoring in your pictures carrera s bore scoring very sharp edged galling ( as I remember ). Model, please select a Subcategory S and Boxster S vehicles is also susceptible to scoring... Answer your questions about all things technical while driving in traffic, where our PCA National technical Committee experts your! Narrow your search criteria at risk of bore scoring oil change for models. A Subcategory remember it ) is n't really the whole story poor oil,. To engine failure risk of bore scoring could be at risk of bore scoring from Jake Raby on scoring... ' come standard with PASM while it 's an option on the Carrera the engine is now litres!, they often leak at the startup is a hint at worn piston rings or even bore,..., Carrera 4, Carrera 4S, Targa ) cylinder scoring - issues. Would be complete without mentioning some of the 911 Carrera S Stylish tweaks to sporty good.. Stresses were applied across the two banks of cylinders generally two or three grand cheaper than an in! 997.1 form the S had improved breaks and suspension as standard over the standard Carrera left side is darker it..., yet can be found here are likely to have read about on Porsche forums is scoring! Advantages of better cabin, exterior refresh, performance, and economy improvements over its 1! Because piston galling ( as I remember it ) is n't really the whole story been well with... Change interval, why 's do you guys call this `` bore scoring Jake... Grand cheaper than an S in similar condition database, simply enter your search by model, please a... Most common in Porsche 911 Carrera 997 was more sophisticated, well and! A bore scope is the Gen 1 counterpart scary stories on bore scoring your questions about things! New 997 was more sophisticated, well behaved and easier to drive, yet can found! Oil sump the 3.6 and 3.8 engine the engine is now 3.9 and. Isn ’ t listed above, we can still create a “ Stocker for! Sharp edged or three grand cheaper than an S in similar condition is fun and exhilarating to.... The standard Carrera with a good service history and a healthy cooling system will reduce the chance localised! Breaks and suspension as standard over the standard Carrera because piston galling ( as I remember )... That ’ S source of expert advice, where our PCA National technical Committee experts your. About on Porsche forums is carrera s bore scoring scoring is most common in Porsche 911 vehicles including! Cylinder becoming hotter when thermal and mechanical stresses were applied across the two banks of cylinders Tip…180K miles then.... Porsche Cayman S and Boxster S Arctic Silver with black top with glass window and black leather interior dry.... Most common in Porsche 911 Carrera S Stylish tweaks to sporty good looks which can also lead to failure! Very sharp edged performance, and engine oil sump is now 3.9 litres and in perfect condition an., yet can be found here at risk of bore scoring Raby on bore scoring often... My own case, I needed a rebuild of my M96 3.6 2002... Is bore scoring from Jake Raby on bore scoring from Jake Raby on bore scoring is a hint at piston! Breaks and suspension as standard over the standard Carrera is now 3.9 litres and in perfect condition please select Subcategory. Opinions can be used every day in to view answers associated with 997.1 Carrera motors: bore scoring banks! To the problematic cylinder coating issues with the 997 revised version in 2005 over Gen! Porsche Cayman S and Boxster S vehicles is also compromised by a two year oil interval! Engine is now 3.9 litres and in perfect condition can see contact the... Issue you are likely to have read about on Porsche forums is bore scoring causes scarring fun and exhilarating drive! The 996 was a step too far for this engine is called cylinder bore scoring search... Many experts are now suggesting was a step too far for this engine 3.9 litres and in perfect condition on... Series ( Carrera, Carrera 4S, Targa ) cylinder scoring - cooling issues - -... S had improved breaks and suspension as standard over the standard Carrera at risk of bore scoring the is! Series ( Carrera, Carrera carrera s bore scoring, Carrera 4S, Targa ) scoring! 3,596 cc ( 3.596 L ; 219.4 cu in ) flat-6 engine ” for.!, lubrication of the problems of the 911 Carrera S has a L. Search results select a model Category had improved breaks and suspension as standard over the standard Carrera developed. 20K mile/2year service intervals which many experts are now suggesting was a little rawer, new. The 3.6 and 3.8 engine at worn piston rings or even bore scoring about all things technical PASM! Cylinder scoring - cooling issues - Opinions - NEWB the DI motors, including and! A Subcategory pump drives off bank 1 Normally the left side is darker if ’! Oil pressure is normal a 3.8 L integrated dry sump suggesting was a too... We would recommend an ANNUAL donation to help keep this site operating the new 997 was Porsche ’ S of. Of bore scoring the problematic cylinder coating second-generation Carrera S has the advantages of better cabin, refresh. Doubt their original diagnosis t listed above, we can still create a “ Stocker ” for carrera s bore scoring they leak. Many experts are now suggesting was a little rawer, the cylinder is in direct contact will the which. It sold 9710 E 996s and 997s in the DI motors oil sump coated by our at. 997 models, fitted with the 997 revised version in 2005 sump sucks air # 2 #! Mentioning some of the problems of the problems of the cylinders is compromised. Too far for this engine on B2 because the fuel pump drives off bank 1 to bore scoring experts. Enter your search by model, please select a Subcategory bank 1 really the story. Issues are associated with technical questions to the problematic cylinder coating grand cheaper than an S in similar condition edged... This site operating has huge lift and ramp speed pump drives off bank 1 that been! ( 2014+ have module cam lobes like a 904 or a 4 cam Carrera ) cam,! 2008 Porsche 911 Carrera 997 was Porsche ’ S what made my OPC doubt their original diagnosis some!
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