We have had 100’s of these guns roll through over the years and have seen a lot of mistakes. The Saiga-12 (/ ˈ s aɪ ɡ ə /) is a shotgun available in a wide range of configurations, patterned after the Kalashnikov series of rifles and named after the Saiga antelope.Like the Kalashnikov rifle variants, it is a rotating bolt, gas-operated gun that feeds from a box magazine. You don’t necessarily need to “work on them” to get them to run well, some just require a little break in with high brass ammo. There currently is no other detachable magazine fed shotgun commercially available for civilian purchase in the United States. Article seems dead-on accurate. I’ve put a lot of rounds through this over the years and accept that it may need a tune up every 7 years. Nothing that wasn’t an easy fix but still. when i saved the $900 i went to buy the saiga. 1. We sell only converted guns and guarantee them to shoot anything out of the box. The problem you are having is you’re trying to use a hammer to do a scalpels job. Please stop typing man, your make my head hurt. that thing just goes man. He just wrote his personal testimony of watching seasoned professionals who couldn’t get the crap to work. Still wont fed off a 20 rd drum, I think because of upward force of drum spring. I was really gald to read this because I had my heart set on a clip fed shotgun, I guess I will just stick with my Winchester and Remington. There is no myth, they dont run without gunsmthing. Well, my fellow firearm enthusiasts THAT is precisely the Saiga 12. I have no problem relying on my Saiga 12 to defend my home and family in any situation, and I know damn well it’s gonna fire. I proceeded to re-profile the bolt carrier, removing material slowly, and checking often to ensure that the bolt carrier still had enough surface area contact to engage the hammer into the disconnect. In addition to the…interesting…design, the build quality on Saigas is generally piss poor compared to other shotguns in the same or even lower price ranges (not even the Norinco 870 ripoff is as rough around the edges). Then again, I only use 00 Buckshot or slugs. By Couch-commando, Yesterday at 01:36 AM; Saiga-20. The custom S12 featured on this page also has had the following upgrades: Additional options and customization can be added to the basic conversion to suit your needs as well as making your Saiga shogun uniquely yours. Test fire (both max dram Buck and low-brass birdshot) approx 50 rnds, All other necessary fitting/tweaking (mag well, mag release, carrier rails, extractor tuning, safety fit, etc). I asked around, and every single person I saw who was running a Saiga shotgun at the recent CT match had a major malfunction (“major” defined as taking 10 seconds or more to clear). I tried my tapco trigger with the saiga hammer before ordering the Arsenal group and the hook engagement was unreliable and put the trigger in an odd position. I watched a video on drilling out the gas ports and did it. Very rough feeling gun- no smoothness at all when you pull the bolt back, in fact very gritty feeling. If you want an education on the system, how it works, what it needs, what helps the system for competition just ask. All of these things you SHOULD NOT NEED TO DO TO MAKE A NEW GUN SHOOT! Why are these guns so poorly assembled? It’s true. took straight to range and dumped 200 shells without one hickup. They are simple to work on, and figure out. The gas ports were completely closed off before I drilled them out. Your story is not the first time I have heard of issues with the 12ga. For at least 5-10 rounds. My experience with Saiga Shotguns is that they prefer hot rounds. I often participate in practical shooting matches and see how Saiga-12 and Vepr-12 owners suffer from many problems. and for the purpose of using the saiga for range and hunting reasons, it is among the best. Personally, I have ran 400+ shells of all types through my 930 mossberg (it’s the updated version) without stopping to clean it once. One of the reasons FLA conversion cost more than other companies conversion offerings. I am wondering if the .410 and 20ga are more reliable. If your doing your own build and not all that worried about part counts you can use the tapco trigger with the original russian hammer. when i go to range i have to bring xtra shells cause everyone including the employees love shooting it. However the Promag 12 round drum, is so small, it changes the game for an efficient solution to capacity vs. size issue. After the gas situation was remedied, I knew that it was just a matter of tuning and friction. The Saiga 12s Exp-01 version 030 auto-gas with magwell are a much much better build. Regardless Cadiz Gun Works does all warranty work on saigas and will fix your gun for free if it malfunctions….before you try to “fix” it with BS bandaid mods. SAIGA 12 RELIABILITY KIT- Saiga 12, 20 & 410 Shotguns Replaces your front recoil spring to make your Saiga shotguns more reliable. After installing the carolina shooter supply “reliability kit” and upgraded gas puck it’s a night and day difference. I told him not to worry about that because he had done what I requested and that reliability with low brass shells was not what I requested and I was certain that I could get it to cycle that stuff by myself. 2. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/09/foghorn/gun-review-saiga-12-gauge-semi-automatic-shotgun/. Semi auto shotguns are all inherently problematic when using light , cheap, or soft/inconsistent plastic shelled loads. Converting one to shoot low brass is not hard or expensive. Loaded again and it jamed every time. Too high and the bolt jams on the mag, too low and the bolt doesnt strip a round from the mag and mars the case of the round. Copy of original Russian military S12 front latch installed. do not listen to bullshit on this site and get one if u can. Either you have had one or two bad experiences with the platform and decided they all suck, or you’re a transplant from GlockTalk or the XD Forums. Saiga 12 , semi auto AK style 12 gauge, built at the Russian Izmash Arsenal, featuring 5 round clip fed semi auto , all new construction, will shoot 2 ¾" and 3" magnum, designed for high reliability in harsh environments ,great for tactical and home defense. However, if you were to go on a date with a woman that claimed to give the BEST EVER B.J. Remember, these guns were not intended to fire low brass, thus is where we run into problems. Of course there’s the more common reason for such a reply, and that’s to be buddies with Nick (see, I told you there is no bad publicity in acting). Battlefield: Bad Company 2. i loved the ways the gun performed in the game and how it looked. If you store them loaded for a long time, sometimes a few will ftf. I only fired about 1 box of shells through it before converting it, and even then it was a single shot with low brass Federal Wal-Mart bulk pack ammo. However, the expectations were high because of advertisement. That is ALL thats needed to get it up and running, seriously!!! I volunteered to go though it as I have a lot more experience. IMO operator error. Be patient and don’t listen to gun snobs, who have no business writing articles about firearms that they have no knowledge of. It’s a marvel of engineering just to cycle high quality buck/slugs in a box magazine design. SAIGA 12 RELIABILITY KIT- Saiga 12, 20 & 410 Shotguns : Price: $ 56.95. However, in the end the Saiga 12 is one of the best shotguns to own if you are truly passionate about firearms and are not afraid to do the research. There are length differences of up to .25 inches. Maybe it’s because I haven’t put enough rounds through one in a single sitting, but ever since I got the MD Arms aftermarket gas regulator I haven’t had any issues with my Saiga. It took me a week to decide on the Saiga over the Benelli. clean action, no hangups, no jams, accurate. Guess what. In short order a couple of adjustments needed to be made. Stock Status: IN STOCK AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE. Parts are not always interchangeable between guns either. -They require expensive upgrades from experts? I have been giving this gun every chance in the world to work and I want it to work but patients is wearing then at this point. Since 2006 the Saiga-12 has seen increased popularity by competitive and recreational shooters. The fit and finish of the gun is actually very good in comparison to most akms ive seen. With a few minor adjustments they can be made to shoot whatever you wish to put through them and be 100% reliable doing it. Well, with that “logic”, go buy yourself a Saiga . We are using Tapco G2 – single hook as basis for trigger group modifications. I had one jam that was easily fixed by pulling the bolt back kept going like a champ. Cut pistol grip slot, supply and install US made SAW style pistol grip and associated mounting hardware. Bottom line if it jams your dead. not sure something that weighs in at 5.3kg (11.6845lbs) dry, meaning no magazine. SKU: VOM-12-08. One for hunting, one for skeet, and one in case all hell breaks loose. Saiga 12s are great…for decorating the used racks at gunshops. I used the factory 5-round, 2-Promag 10 round mags, and Promag 20 round drum with no one single hiccup. I shot the gun that way for 7 yrs before i converted the gun using akm parts i had laying around. The areas in blue should be left in tact. i considered buying the parts and have a gunsmith do the work. DO NOT USE A MODIFIED TAPCO FIRE CONTROL GROUP. Gas system tune. I assumed they were clogged after years of use so I took it back to the smith for a deep cleaning. The outside the gun is just like the Saiga-12 series of shotguns, only better. With the advertisement of such shotguns being the “AK of shotguns” it is NOT unreasonable to expect AK’esque reliability from a BOX STOCK shotgun, from said advertisement(s). It was a no brainer for me. Saiga .308 16" - Ak reliability and M1A Accuracy at .22LR prices. Took me a total of 20 minutes to get it to eject and feed the Federal bulk crap from Wallys mart, havent tried anything less powered, maybe will try to find some lighter loads. Can be used with all 2-3/4" Shells. Straight out of the box my saiga has fired over 3000 rounds 2 3/4 and 3 inch. How about a MKA 1919 from Firebird Precision: http://www.firebirdprecision.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=30&Itemid=39. You have no experience with this firearm. These modifications have introduced a number of areas where serious malfunctions can occur. The saiga 12 is a very simple weapons platform that anyone can and should learn to perform their own maintenance and modifications to. I ran into this problem in a big way using aftermarket mags for my CETME. An AR Style Shotgun shot by a 3-gunner Patrick Kelley: Jesus chirst, $140 for 10 round magazines? And YES, the Saiga 12 is supposed to be able to shoot low brass loads. Remember, in acting, there is no such thing as bad publicity. However, I was quite displeased with several of the examples that I’ve fired.MODIFIED OR NOT.High dollar or plain-jane. There are Saiga 12s’ out there that run flawlesly, however these require some work. You can not own one for shits and giggles. If you’re a cheap ass, and only willing to buy the bottom tier low recoil clay/birdshot, don’t get a semi auto shotgun. Funds for me were no object so I’m not justifying my purchase. i highly recommend getting one. But the fact remains that I just saw the best shooters in the world attempt to use these shotguns in an extremely controlled environment, one where they had ample time to prepare and spent thousands on improvements and modifications, and yet the shotguns still failed to work. And yes I have polished the running parts of the bolt. He made the tweaks and it has been 100% reliable all this time until about a month ago. magazines ? Yes. G2 trigger (double hook) polished/smoothed and specially modified for reduced take-up, zero over-travel and 2-stage operation. I did add a converted one, to my collection, and its far more finicky about low brass, and, from the factory, the front gas tube was installed crookedly which required me to remove, and reinstall into the proper orientation, a process which was more difficult looking, that difficult to do, and, now that I know how, I have added it to my services for customers. im pretty sure some gun nut could build something better in the secret mountain lair than a saiga. So I did some research and re-profiled the bolt. but i was persistent and i looked up the saiga in online forums and asked around about it with other gun enthusiasts. I have 2 Saiga 12’s and they work just fine for me. I was furious I bought such a piece….after a few days of cool down time I decided to spend the money to convert my saiga ..and boy am I glad I did . i immediately decided that i wanted one. For example Guns & Ammo magazine gave the Saiga 12 a positive review and I’m pretty sure they know a lot more about weapons than the retards posting comments on this site. Stock weapons are boring to me. Most Saiga shooters won’t shoot them much. I set out to buy a semi-auto shotgun that was “all purpose.” I know I will never have a situation where I’m going to be in a war or zombie apocalypse but I wanted to buy a shotgun that can fit many roles. Sorry for the late post, but I have to say that clearly it’s hit or miss and you can’t write off the gun based on one blogger. Shop our large variety of saiga accessories and ak 47 tactical conversion stock kits. My advice is take what ppl have to say for what its worth. Perhaps people with low firearms knowledge, and low lack of desire to step into a relatively new system, should stay away from the S12, as its STILL a work in progress, but, thats the great part, look at the companies who have developed solutions, US made mags, parts, etc, all to help grow the entire market. The MK1919 isn’t there yet; I saw malfunctions with these at Ironman in June as well. It will not take “thousands of dollars” to tune, tweak, repair, or whatever. They are a nice toy, but impractical for the use they were designed for. Equating ALL 1911’s to a sh!tty Russian shotty is pure hyperbole, and not even in the same area code as “logic”. Just trying to think of rimmed cartridges that I know of, but I suppose the size required for shells might throw things off. Take care about her at the beginning and she does not disappoint you…. It was a 24″ barrel shotgun and only had 2 gas ports. I was wrong. I like to fan the trigger to check cycling capability. That said, you need to recognize the design and its limitations. ive gone thru probably 3000 rnds without fieldstripping or deep cleaning my s12. i was disappointed about the factory stock price at the time, $899. It is designed as a rugged, reliable COMBAT platform. I made it through Ironman 2011 with just two such malfunctions. It is huge. You turd burglar. Post subject: Re: Saiga 12 reliability, recoil. After a rather lengthy day of shooting skeet with other “doubters” no one had anything negative to say about this shotgun. Saiga 12 gauge does not seem to cycle well with light loaded rounds and I am guessing that was the problem. Sorry but until the ban on imports is lifted or the company sells to a non banned owner prices for these guns won’t be coming down. I dont shoot competition, but when we go to the range, it eats up 3 or 4 hundred rounds without issue. That huge fat fucking hammer that you just put in your saiga, You know the one I’m talking about, the one that was never really meant to be put in your shotgun. I haven’t had any problems with it, but I have never subjected it to the rigors of three gun. Loaded up and it shot one 10 rd mag flawlessly. all with stock iron sights. It’s one of those things people buy to mod, then mod it until it fails, and blame the platform. They dont sell those to the public asswipe. I have seen it first hand. However, I know for a fact that shredding anything you aim for is. let me tell you my review for the saiga. so i waited and waited but the price stayed the same. I could see the writing on the wall — getting it “up to spec” was going to cost thousands of dollars and even then, the design was so inherently shitty that it probably was still going to malfunction on me. i instantly started researching ways to mod my gun online. yeah fun. I own a saiga 12ga ZERO mods done to it, have shot over 600 round of anything and everything and you know what? Based on the youtube video’s that I have got to see of people firing one of those, it looks really good to see a granny in a wheelchair hold onto that sucker and empty a drum full of buck into a pile of skids and have nothing left of it but twigs! . YES you’re right, Benelli’s are totally reasonably priced. You have entered an incorrect email address! Good job, Nick!! If the mods ordered mess it up I will throw them in the garbage. I have one magazine fed shotgun that always has been reliable, It’s a Marlin bolt action 12 ga. slug gun and with one shell in the chamber plus the 2 in the mag, capacity maxes out at 3. This review should only be taken as a opinion none the less. Everything about Saiga-20 shotguns. Would like to see your take, in blog post form of course, on some of their rifles. saiga 20 guage-2 gas ports…..examine your gas ports and make sure they are completely drilled out then come back and dog the saiga! Shoot me an email — I would be glad to discuss this more with you and give you a chance to change my mind. I might also add that it has at least a thousand rounds through it and I use it in 3 gun comp. Hi I realize this is an older thread but I have to add my 2 cents…when I bought my saiga about 5 years ago I brought it home stock and put a few rounds through it and literally threw it across the yard !! Let them have their fun so that you and I can enjoy running slim, elegant guns that are reliable, relatively light, and don’t have sharp sheet-metal edges at a reasonable price. I could be wrong. That being said. not because these articles say that the saiga-12 sucks. The Saiga shotgun is built roughly on the same design as an AK-47 – very roughly. This article is quite biased and full of bull shit misinformation. The writer of this article obviously never tested his gun and approached this endevour with alot of bias, and supported his OPINIONS by using a heavily modded gun as an example. Got it. Paper hulls had moisture issues. The gas system is flawed and should have not been put into production. Thanks for the advice and encouragement. -- Where Performance and Reliability come FIRST --Welcome to Saiga Custom. Lastly, what would they cap the shells with? The latter is addressed with external magazine-fed shotguns, but the most prolific of these, the Saiga 12, suffers from reliability and ammunition sensitivity issues. my gun has since improved in accuracy since i put a stock with a rubber butt pad and new foregrip with a verticle hand grip on it. As far as the quality of factory builds regarding both the Saiga and Vepr guns one has to keep in mind that both the Izmash and Molot factories pretty much operate at a defecit and have to be State funded now. Thanks for the heads up on your observations of the Saiga. Admittedly, they do need work to fire the cheap bulk pack ammo that most people want to use in them. So, I cycled the action by hand, and took note of where the friction and resistance to the bolt carrier was most prevalent. AK-100 / AK-103 side folding stock and trunnion (US made copy) installed. I may be lucky but it is what it is. it was a very heavily modded form and would be very expensive to buy. i’ve been around and used guns since i was 10. i’m hunting smart not competition smart. I remember one of the tweaks that needed to be made was opening up the gas ports. Change out the springs, replace the gas block with an aftermarket and you are good to go for most everything. That shooter was running the most heavily-modded Saiga-12 I’ve ever seen in the flesh, and despite its $1300 probable cost it was a complete clunker. I’m not trying to flame you, I’m honestly just disappointed in your bias reporting. New mag wells are better. Yep, I’m totally sticking with the tube fed Mossberg 930. When I first started using it, my club tried to ban its type because I was kicking thier asses. As a matter of fact they are all going to buy one now for self defense. So I also requested that my local gunsmith drill 2 extra gas ports in the barrel, as I don’t have a decent drill. The fact the guns require work to even make run now is ridiculous, and they aren’t worth what they sell for now given the problems many have. Its only outperformed all of my friends’ ARs for reliability. It does not work well with soft shooting loads – the kind you see at competition. Metal? Nuts to you jackass. I like my Saiga-.308 as an alternative–once modified–to many of the other .308 carbines out there, good accuracy and reliability. These aren’t designed for target ammo. The magazines function without flaw, are of top notch manufacturing and are sold at … This will give you a gun that will run any ammo you want to run. That’s the reason I ditched the Saiga shotgun when I did. The feed mod is first. As an unbiased owner of a fully modified Saiga-12 I have to agree with Nick on some points. now, i said i did some research and asked around about the saiga before i bought it. I don’t know why so many are having issues with thier saiga 12, I have an older 13 part modell I paid $279 bucks for new and have NEVER had a malfunction. It was never intended to shoot light loads, so, if they do, I consider it a bonus. I purchased my s12 a month ago(had to have one and over paid) no mods yet but are in the mail. And cost me a total of $0.00 to get it reliable…. Yeah I completely agree. 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